Indie Art for All: A Conversation with Also Cool and First Crush’s Zoë Argiropulos-Hunter
Where is the line between gatekeeping and paying your artistic dues? Between having a discerning eye for high-quality work and dismissing something offhand because its artist is atypical to the usual suspects in a genre? That line can become surprisingly blurry when it comes to local art scenes – and that can be an incredibly limiting reality to face.
But that’s also where Zoë Argiropulos-Hunter’s work comes in. From co-founding Also Cool – an arts and music-focused online publication based out of both Ottawa and Montreal – to creating First Crush – a music promotion company that prioritizes musical event development with diverse indie artists – Argiropulos-Hunter is committed to making art accessible for all.
Working both independently and with like-minded collaborators, the Ottawa musician/event producer/writer/managing editor/founder/music promoter/etc. has helped build safer spaces for art communities to gather, be creative, and inspire each other.
I sat down with Zoë to ask her how the heck one person can do all this, how she got started in Ottawa’s indie art and music scenes, and why it all matters.
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You’re someone who wears a ton of hats. To name what I’m sure are just a few of them: an event producer, arts programmer, music promoter, managing editor, and a musician yourself. How did you figure out that you were interested in taking on all these different types of creative roles?
So I think I can speak for a lot of creatively interested people when I say that your discovery of – or maybe approach to – creativity isn’t always the most artistic endeavour. For me, actually, I really used being overly committed and really busy as a means of – and this is kind of a heavy way to start an interview – but as a means of really not attending to my mental health.
From a really young age, I’ve always been really ambitious – perhaps overly ambitious would be the best way to describe it. And I think, for me, it was a way of just tuning out my early depression. I also have a mood disorder – so it was a way for me to enable myself to still feel productive and still feel like a valuable human. And at the same time, not actually addressing those things in a healthy way.
Credit: Aayden Argiropulos-Hunter
But my relationship with all the things I do has changed, insofar as being able to discover how to do these things in a healthy way instead of doing it as a means of tuning out parts of yourself that you maybe don’t have the capacity or the knowledge or the experience to attend to, if that makes sense.
You're also a co-founder of Also Cool, a platform that was founded by artists for artists. So can you give me a little bit of the background on how you and your co-founder came up with the idea behind the project? And is there a story behind how you got its name, because it just seems so effortlessly *~cool*~ to me.
So like a lot of my – I will call them passion projects – Also Cool was founded by myself and my best friend Malaika Astorga. And we came up with the idea out of mutual frustration for how people like us, or people within our circles, were being represented – or not being represented – equally in different forms of media. So it really came out of a place of frustration.
And then at that time, we were both sort of getting our creative footing in our respective industries. She's a graphic designer, a visual artist, as well as a social media strategist. And we have a lot of commonalities. Our interests, obviously, and I guess a mutual frustration of seeing a lot of people being tokenized or fetishized – or simply not being included at all – in a way that was valuable or meaningful to them.
It really birthed a need to create a platform that felt inclusive in a way that was defined by people who strive for that inclusivity. So that's really the essence, I guess, of Also Cool and something that we really want, and still do maintain, as a platform.
Zoë Argiropulos-Hunter, left, and Malaika Astorga, right. Credit: Zoë Argiropulos-Hunter
Another main driver of the project was really focusing on storytelling being done in a way that is authentic to the people who are telling those stories and finding a way to give people a platform and sort of, you know, play more of a behind the scenes role and letting others just have the means to tell the stories that they might not have the opportunity to share.
So we're really interested in focusing on creatives at different levels of their careers, providing a platform for people to tell stories in a way that makes sense and is also meaningful to them. All while challenging barriers and practices within creative industries that we've encountered and still continue to encounter.
In terms of the name, I remember when Malaika and I first talked about Also Cool was actually on a phone call when she was in LA for a trip. I was at home. And at the time, she was working for another publication and was feeling really frustrated.
And she was like, “You know, we should just make her own magazine.” And it was something we had talked about since we were teens, making zines and still really into zine culture. It was kind of one of those things. I was like, “Oh, it'd be so cool if…”
But, you know, having us both working at different publications were like,
“Yeah, we could totally do this thing.” I don't actually remember where the name Also Cool came from, but I know it came from that conversation. And that was it. It was just kind of like, “What about this?” And that was all – there wasn't really a lot of thinking that went into it. But there has been a lot of thinking since.
Credit: Malaika Astorga
I think that with a lot of creative industries, the recognizable names that you see on the surface belong to white cis men. I think forging these spaces to uplift other voices but also to celebrate simply existing in these spaces is – and not in a corny way – brave and it’s cool.
Like, I might imagine you receive opposition for putting in effort in this way…? I’m not sure if it would be very blatant negativity or something more subliminal…
So what I find really interesting about forging projects like this and having certain…I guess…attitudes and intentions with your mandate – I think, a lot of the time, people forget that these kinds of things are in place to acknowledge the different ways that people can exist, and how we can harmoniously exist together.
And a lot of the opposition that we get is that people will be frustrated that we want our platform to expand. And so they'll be like, “Well, what you're doing isn't really virtuous, because you want to monetize it.” And it's like, well, it's a lot of frickin’ work to run a publication.
And, you know, as much as it's really meaningful to do it on a volunteer basis, we all have to live. And I think it's pretty upsetting that people want to maintain a culture by which people need to pay their dues to be considered valuable – or even just do it in a sacrificial way.
And I'm not saying that I don't believe in that to some extent – because I do believe a lot of what we do is just simply because we're passionate about it. But also because it's about lived experiences, and about acknowledging lived experiences and making new possibilities for people to connect with each other and with their communities, or with different communities.
Backxwash performing at a First Crush show. Credit: Ming Wu @photogmusic
The idea of it not being a virtuous concept because you maybe someday hope to earn a profit from it…that’s very gross.
Also Cool takes place over a number of different media – you’re an online mag, you produce zines, you host events, you’re a radio show and a podcast. How do you go about choosing the content that you’ll feature on each platform? For example, how do you decide whether a particular artist’s story will be covered in a podcast episode versus a written article? Does it depend on an artist’s preference, or maybe do specific stories lend themselves better to different media?
So currently, we're operated by a volunteer team of five. And we all have extremely different backgrounds in terms of how we go about storytelling. Some of us are more visually inclined or have written inclinations – some of us have theatre backgrounds – some of us have musical backgrounds. So I think our approaches can be so varied just because we look at perspectives of stories in different ways.
However, there is also trying to compete with the algorithm constantly when sharing content. So I think that equally – that like, shareability, or – you can also call it a form of accessibility – plays a huge part in how we choose to do our storytelling.
For example, we might have someone who looks at something a little more conceptual, like an essay topic, but they may choose to do it in a shorter article, or a more longform article. I think there's a lot of room for variation, just because I think we have a pretty distinct style in terms of aesthetic, but also our tone – but it's still something that we're experimenting with every day and trying to find what fits, especially when the climate of sharing content online is constantly changing. And that's something that we're always trying to be innovative about.
Credit: Maia Allan Riley, 2019.
Do you have a favorite storytelling method – be it hosting your own radio show or writing? Do you have a particular “specialty” when it comes to specific media?
Writing comes to me really naturally – I would say it's my go-to form of creating content, if you want to put it that way.
That being said, I have a really long history in radio. I started my first stint in radio actually as a kid, and later instructed radio programs for children, and then moved into doing my own radio show in university. So that also, I think, kind of comes to me very easily.
I think of myself as an introverted person. But there's something about going behind the microphone…and like, for instance, most of my radio practice involves talking about music, and there's just something about the way that you can encapsulate music and talk about it in radio form that I think will transcend time.
Something I'm getting more comfortable with actually is making more bite-sized content. So, sharing things in Instagram stories. And I don't think people wouldn't necessarily think of that as a form of storytelling, but it can be.
And something we talked about earlier that I think is really important – that always stays in the back of my mind, too – is it's so difficult to do these things in a way that feels authentic when you know that you're trying to compete against a monetization machine. So if you're trying not to inherently monetize identity, in a way that these like performative and, like, clickbait double outlets do, however, you still exist within the same paradigms that they do. It makes it basically a mindfuck.
I was wondering how your experience has been with covering content coming out of two distinct cities (Montreal and Ottawa). Obviously, they're like close, but not *super* close to each other. How do you navigate creating content that features both places at the same time? And also as an addendum – how did you arrive at covering two different cities? Was that always your intention with Also Cool? Or did that change at some point while you were developing it?
The concept to be a dual city was out of the fact that I'm here and Malaika is in Montreal. And right now, our team is still divided as such. So we have half a team in Montreal and half a team in Ottawa.
There was certainly, at the time that we started, a surplus of interest in Also Cool from people in Montreal. So by virtue of that, we covered way more Montreal content, which is totally fine because like you said, it's close in nature and I still think that Ottawa is Montreal’s greatest suburb. I think that there's a lot of value in making it so that both of our audience hubs can subscribe to both of those worlds.
I think the intention to cover both cities is really – and other cities too, because we really moved into…I don't want to say a global context, but like, we cover a lot of artists from the United States, different countries within Europe…we've also expanded into Asia as well. And I'd love to cover more content internationally. It's definitely, you know, an interest.
Credit: Malaika Astorga
Anyways, to get back to your original question, though: I find the direction that we're going in is to diminish this idea that Ottawa is a sleepy city. And that's something I also do with First Crush – I try to make it so that it's clear there’s a world where interesting, artistic things live here, that people can be a part of.
And then within Montreal, where it's almost like you’re oversaturated with industry opportunities, and that's not a bad thing – but it can be really overwhelming. I think we're really trying to be niche in what we cover, so focusing on certain types of genres of music, certain types of visual art – you know, certain types of mentality or messaging, or intentionality within creation…I think is what we're trying to do in that context.
I feel like you've cultivated such a unique and special network: with the different storytelling media; the people that you know, who know others; you can kind of combine all of those things to allow people to tell their own stories in a mode of their own preference.
If I can add to that, I think a really good example of this would be that we kind of treat Also Cool like a microcosm of the world – understanding that it's very experientially dependent, but also that there are patterns or behaviors or experiences within our little bubble, I think that can speak to a larger – I don't want to say like social experience, or the society that we live in or whatever – but things like that.
For instance, we did a panel last summer with Fierté Montreal, which is the Pride festival in Montreal. And we applied for a community project grant, and they let us facilitate a panel – the topic was discussing LGBTQ queer nightlife in Montreal. And we invited different practitioners of different backgrounds within different creative circles just to come together and talk about their experiences, how they were similar, how they were different.
And that was really enlightening and really special – and I think it resonated with a lot of people. So again, it's making space...or investing in space for this discourse to happen in a way that will resonate with others who we’re hoping to either bring into our network – if they want to contribute – or just like, have around us because they exist.
You've also founded an event company, as you mentioned, called First Crush. So I guess you've kind of touched on this a little bit – but maybe more specifically: with First Crush, what inspired you to kind of enter the industry in this different kind of way?
I would say that my first inklings of interest in promoting music started in high school, when I started attending shows and meeting different creative people and different musicians, and really liking the feeling of having something to belong to. And I really wanted to emulate that for the next generation – or my own generation, but in a way, again, that was maybe more focused on practices that were safer and more community-oriented and more closely aligned with things that I wanted to see reflected in the community that I cared so much about.
Htbsle performing at a First Crush show. Credit: Ming Wu @photogmusic
So that's sort of the background of First Crush. And I still think it's very much centered around that. However, I'm trying to get a little bit more determined with my curation. Because I think that that will help the programming stand out a little bit more. And you have to be more precious with your personal time, but also because I really do want to be able to craft programming that is really unique and really special.
How has running Also Cool differed from running First Crush, and has anything surprised you or taught you something that you didn't know before? Maybe that's hard to answer tangibly. But if there's anything you can speak to, in that way of something that you’ve gained from those experiences.
I mean, there's definitely a lot of overlap just because the intentions of both projects are so closely aligned. So that always feels nice, when there's different parts of your life that are all holistically feeding into this overall...it's not a goal, but you know, you could call it like, a way of striving to be, maybe. That's been really nurturing, but also really fulfilling.
I would say, with Also Cool – what I love so much about it is that sense of collaboration. I don't get that from First Crush as much, because it's really just me and my own brain, trying to make things happen. And as much as I do consider myself to be a control freak, I just really value being able to bounce ideas off of other people and learn from other people. And I am so indebted to the care, patience, knowledge and understanding that I get from my Also Cool collaborators.
And of course, that also comes from within First Crush, but there's a little bit of a routine that follows it. Just because booking shows does follow a certain formality. I think there is room to be creative, but within a promotional capacity, your job is to facilitate the creative thing happening. You're not actively being creative, you're like, “This thing is cool, you should look at it, that's all,” and then trying to find ways to do that. So that enough people will come and, you know, you're thinking about a bottom line constantly. It can be really stressful and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of emailing.
And Also Cool is all those things too – believe me, the inbox is wild all the time.
But I would say there isn't anything that replaces that sense of internal community and companionship that we have for each other. I mean, we're all friends. But you know, it's really special when you're able to exercise that and create something that means so much to so many people, people you don't even know. And I do get that from First Crush.
Chandra performing at a previous First Crush show. Credit: Ming Wu @photogmusic
So – your First Crush radio show on CKCU “highlights new material from up-and-coming artists on her radar from Ottawa's very own music scene and beyond,” for First Crush – is there a specific way that you source artists that's different from the way that you source for Also Cool? I know you already spoke to that a little bit – but is it more or less the same?
It can be more or less the same. A lot of the way that we source our work is just by having an ear to the ground and to a lot of different publications. So there are publications that I've subscribed to for a long time, or things that I want to know about – I ask other people what they're looking at, what they're listening to and what they're reading.
So it's not by any means, like a science. But you know, there are lots of great resources online, like some that I can speak to are the Earshot Daily, charts that are produced by the NCRA. Those have been really helpful for kind of pointing out to me like what is on so-called Canada's radar. And then also subscribing to different smaller publications.
And another huge thing that I do, unsurprisingly as a radio producer, is listening to a lot of other community radio. So that's always been really enlightening for me as well.
Another thing that I really, really miss and am looking forward to is doing it in a super organic way by going to a show and not knowingwho's playing, and then just sort of seeing where it goes.
As someone who rightly identifies Ottawa as not just the sleepy city that it's kind of become known for…what's something that you personally see as unique about the Ottawa art scene – whether that be music, or visual art, or any other discipline within that? Ottawa in particular, or Canada more broadly, if you prefer to answer that way? That people may not know.
It's a really big question. But I think what I will make it come down to in a succinct way is that people here work really hard. And a lot of the time, I don't see it being done for a reason of something egotistical or striving to be famous or like, to be the best. It's just simply that…they care so much about what they're doing. And I find that so admirable.
Simone Provencher performing at a First Crush show. Credit: Ming Wu @photogmusic
I think it's the most special thing for me to see people so invested in doing something for themselves and for the people that they're collaborating with and for their listeners, or admirers. That's something I would say is what I've noticed about the Canadian music scene, and generally, with the independent artists that I've worked with – is that people here work really hard and really have a connection with their work that is like…this is a means of life, this is a life force, a lifeline and something that I will continue to invest in, even if no one else hears it – which is so amazing to me. So that's one thing I'll note.
People here are really good at tinkering with stuff. I think that goes across the board for like, whether it's practitioners of creative stuff, or promoters of creative stuff. People here are really invested in knowing how stuff works and figuring out for themselves and trying things out and being experimental…and not being afraid to make mistakes or figure it out.
I think there's very much like a DIY ethos in Ottawa specifically that I haven't seen deviate too much – which is comforting, because it's something that I obviously subscribe to. But there's still a really earnest desire to legitimize it so that everyone else feels heard and on the same page, but still not taking itself a little too seriously.
Dish Pit performing at a First Crush show. Credit: Ming Wu @photogmusic
This is my last one. Do you have any particular upcoming projects that we should keep our eyes out for, or anything else that you would like to unashamedly promote?
So, the summer is presenting a pretty exciting turn for me. I'm returning to in-person radio for the first time in two years, which feels really nice. I'm really nervous because I forget how to do everything, but I'll figure it out. So that's something I'm excited to do.
I'm currently going through a rebrand right now. So I recently launched a new logo that was designed by a friend of mine, Amery Sandford, who is a Montreal illustrator and animator. So I'm very excited about the rebrand and kind of trying to, again, legitimize my thing – not so that it's like a means of sustaining things monetarily, but just so that it feels real after existing for so long.
Credit: Amery Sandford
But right now, I'm doing more promotional work than I have obviously done in years. So I am returning with some shows throughout July and working on a couple things for August and September right now.
I mentioned the potentiality of another season of our podcast coming up. So that's something that's really exciting. And we're really, really working on hitting the ground running as we return to a semblance of being able to connect with each other in real life with it not being totally futile. So you know, hoping that things stay okay.
We'll still continue to try and promote more shows, more artists’ events, more opportunities to connect both in Ottawa and Montreal. So, yeah, that's sort of what I have going on right now.
And then in terms of Also Cool, we recently relaunched our Patreon which is really exciting – it's more accessible than ever before and features some new goodies and kind of like a new outlook in terms of intentionality with what we're doing with the subscriber content. So that's fun.
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Zoë’s work goes to show that when you choose to write-off Ottawa as a place that’s simply *sleepy* – there’s so much you’re also choosing to miss. It requires turning a willfully blind eye to the city as a place where art cannot and does not happen. Her role in the growing movement to make artistic spaces more accessible is an essential part of ensuring that local art scenes actually reflect the diverse cities they belong to. Our conversation made it clear to me that while creating art is one thing, finding the right audience for it is another endeavour entirely – and while that process is often hidden from the average art patron, it’s actually equally as interesting.
To find out more about what’s happening with indie arts and music in Ottawa, Montreal and beyond, checking out Zoë’s many projects is a great place to start.